JANUARY 2008 - When it comes to American power pop, the usual suspects like CHEAP TRICK, THE FLAMIN' GROOVIES and THE SHOES grab the lion's share of attention and discussion. But as a genre, power pop has spawned quite an assortment of interesting and original artists with quality releases that are often overlooked. Along with NC's CHRIS STAMEY, L.A.'s THE PLIMSOULS, Memphis pop legends THE SCRUFFS are responsible for some truly incredible bits and nuggets. Led by songwriter Stephen Burns, the band has soldiered on since the late 70s, dropping fantastic gems like 1977's "Wanna Meet the Scruffs?" and 1998's "Teenage Gurls". Stephen was happy to discuss the remarkable history of this highly collectible, prolific band and their latest album, "Pop Manifesto".

Marchman: It's great to get some time to talk with you about THE SCRUFFS, Stephen. "Angst" has got to be one of my favorite Memphis albums of all time.

Stephen Burns: Why thanks very much! (laughs). The "Angst" sound is pretty Memphis. But, because I was learning and engineering, of course, it doesn't sound anywhere like what John Fry did with "Wanna Meet the Scruffs" --- it's impossible to compare Fry's engineering with just about anyone. Let me also say, this is quite a website! The geographic diversity is interesting, but the depths of the interviews, both in terms of the musical comments and dialogues and also the personal notations about musicians and their backgrounds make the articles read very intimately.

Marchman: Thanks very much, Stephen.

SB: Absolutely!

Marchman: You mentioned the production for the first couple of records. Let's start there - what are some of the differences between that very Ardent / Chris Bell-sounding debut and the "Wanna Meet the Scruffs" album in your opinion?

SB: Well, like I said, John Fry is pretty untouchable in my opinion (although I think Geoff Allan, our current engineer at CaVa and Ardent is definitely up there in the ball game). Some of "Angst" was four track, some 8 track and a few songs made it to 16 track. I had to premix and ping down tracks in stereo---things you don't do today at all. It's like you are doing things right, but not quite right, and making up for it with some energy and feel.

Marchman: Are those twin guitar harmonies in "You're That Girl"?

SB: Yes, twin acoustic guitars and voices. Still one of my favorite little songs which I threw out live in Japan.

Marchman: 1977's "Wanna Meet the Scruffs" is a sort of vinyl 'holy grail' among power pop releases. How long was the original disc out of print before you reissued it on CD?

SB: I think "Wanna Meet..." was out of print for 20 years before I started working on the reissues. And, it was good timing because the original Ardent masters were still in good shape. Originally, people very much liked the quality of the vinyl and a lot of work was put into making sure that we did not lose anything in transferring to digital. Everyone was quite happy with the quality holding up to the vinyl. Actually, all of the SCRUFF stuff has made a successful jump to digital. But, all the material was recorded on 24 track tape, usually very good Ampex tape. The exception was Pop Manifesto. By the time we started "Pop Manifesto", Geoff Allan in Scotland convinced me that we were at the point where we could dispense with tape. This is good because it is bulky, costly and no one makes it anymore. But, "Love The Scruffs" and "Swingin Singles" were recorded on tape because the ProTools digital just was not there before about 2004-2005, at least for SCRUFFS stuff.

Marchman: What were the early shows like, leading up to "Angst" and the "Wanna Meet..." material?

SB : Originally, I began THE SCRUFFS with the "Angst" recordings, searching for musicians. Zeph Paulson and I were a duo and auditioned a tremendous amount of Memphis people. I think just about everyone who could play a guitar in Memphis auditioned for THE SCRUFFS. Dave Branyan came along just about a year or so into the situation. Dave was the perfect Scruff guitarist. We had various bassists, the primary one being Bill Godley for the early release of "Break The Ice". When it came time to record the album and re-record"Break The Ice" and "She Say Yea", we got Dave's brother Rick Branyan. Rick literally was only in THE SCRUFFS for a couple of months prior to recording the album.

Marchman: I've always been blown away by "She Say Yea". It's like the perfect two minute pop song!

SB: Thanks! I wrote most all of the material including all of "She Say Yea". Dave and Rick threw on the nice harmony vocals and, of course, Dave's guitar lead is quite classic. I think the songs stay fresh because of the melodies and excitement. Of course, I was using variations on G chords and D Major, but also you have sustained chords and 7ths (A7 with a top g) ---the BEATLES used a lot of 7ths and the 6ths as well. But, we played the chords very fast and used the more developed chords. Of course we played some fast minor chords like in "I'm a Failure"---I'm not sure a C#m chord had been that tortured in that short a space of time and thrown back into a melody line before that tune.

Marchman: Was there an overlap period in the early Memphis days when you were actually contemporaries of BIG STAR?

SB: We were not exactly contemporaries of BIG STAR. They were all about 4-6 years older than we were. Of course, Chris Bell was an influence on me. I was very interested in Chris' writing, but I did not meet Alex until he had finished "Radio City". I was around in Ardent, sort of working a bit, when "Sister Lovers" was recorded. That was when I was auditioning THE SCRUFFS. Summer, fall 1975 into 1976 trying to find musicians, work at Ardent and Shoe studios. Write and learn how to record the stuff, all at once. And I had to get to enough classes to graduate from college.

Marchman: How do you split your time these days between Memphis and your current residence in Portland?

SB: I have been in Portland for about 2 years. But, since 1999, I have lived most of the time in Britain, mostly Glasgow. I was in the West, Arizona and tired of that. Portland is a nice city to live, but, frankly, I don't live here much. I hardly know the streets at all. I am in Europe quite a lot. In Memphis this year because my mother passed away in October, so I was there about 5 times. Last year, we all spent about 3 weeks in Memphis mixing "Pop Manifesto" at Ardent.

Marchman: How and when did the second version of THE SCRUFFS come together?

SB: After I had recorded what I called "Signs & Symbols" as Messenger 45 (should have just been THE SCRUFFS "Back From The Grave") I decided that I wanted to continue to record, but with a full time sort of band again. With this in mind, I looked into recording in Los Angeles and Vancouver, Canada as there were quite a few people in both areas that knew my material and THE SCRUFFS concept. In September 1998 I was living in New Orleans and Alex Chilton suggested I come over to Glasgow to see him while he was performing some shows. I have been in Scotland (my grandfather was Scottish), but never in Glasgow. During that time I met Stevie Jackson in BELLE & SEBASTIAN and Francis MacDonald, original drummer in TEENAGE FANCLUB. Others as well. I checked into CaVa studios and found it similar in vibe to Ardent to me. So I decided to make the next recording there which took place in 1999 after a couple of more trips back there. I took Wil O'Brien from The Andersons from Los Angeles during those sessions for some guitar help. On some tunes, I played the guitars and Bob Kildea (now with Belle & Sebastian) also played guitar and bass. Norman Blake joined in on a guitar solo on "Femme AM" and also backing vocals with Bob, Frank, Wil and me. Bob and Francis came to New Orleans and traveled up to Memphis with me to mix "Love, The Scruffs" at Ardent. I was rather ill with bronchitis during that trip in February of 2000, but we finished it up and I think it was finally out in Japan by end of the summer. By that time I had decided to move over to Glasgow pretty much full time. We then proceeded to start recording what became "Swingin' Singles" amid much initial disastrous circumstance.

Marchman: What happened?

SB: The sessions for "Love, The Scruffs" went exceedingly well considering we only rehearsed for a day or two before hitting the studio. Bob Kildea came on board at the last minute to replace a bassist who could not make it due to other situations. But everything clicked very well and I really enjoyed having a four piece group again. A real band. I had a rental house in Glasgow, not far from the studio. I had done one tour of Japan with the group that made "Love, The Scruffs", but by the time it came to start "Swingin' Singles", I had no band. Frank was needed back in TEENAGE FANCLUB and Bob needed the money in BELLE & SEBASTIAN tours. Wil, of course had returned to Los Angeles. It was very depressing. But, a friend Jason MacPhail picked me up by telling me that one of my best talents is getting the right people for groups, and, I think he is right. So, I continued to record, without rehearsal, just getting Frank and Gary Thom (who made the second tour to Japan) on drums. I luckily got Zac Ware, a fantastic guitarist (now with the PROCLAIMERS-) and he got Simon Cottrell on bass for us. After about 6 months things were back on track. Zac found Mark Rodgers and Mark did a show with us in London. Unfortunately, by the time it came time for "Pop Manifesto" Zac had been spirited away to THE PROCLAIMERS. He still managed a track or two on Pop Manifesto, but recruited young talented Paul Napier as his replacement. On "Swingin' Singles", Stevie Jackson continued to contribute as did, Bob and Frank and other nice folk.

Marchman: So the unexpected lineup changes made the recording pretty stressful?

SB: It was just a bit of a revolving door and I did not make matters any better. I sort of recorded off the fly. I had wanted to record songs as I wrote them, in no specific order and just work up the arrangement in the studio. For example, the song "Will I Love You?" was originally recorded with just my acoustic guitar as a lullaby to sing on the bed. But, I did not like it as such, but I still liked the tune. Then I got with Peter and we tried it with just piano and voice. And I did not like that. After about 4 months, I told Peter he needed to write me a string quartet (ala "Eleanor Rigby") and it worked perfectly with just me singing. But, that was about a 5 month process with me going back and forth to America. There were a number of songs recorded that I did not use. I either did not like the basic track or decided other songs were much better.

Marchman: You have a knack for coming up with very simple, boyish phrases that work so well in the context of a song like "Your Girl Likes Me" from the "Midtown" record. Do you play around with these phrases a lot beforehand to fit them into the context of a song / make the right statement, or is it an instantaneous process for you?

SB : Thanks for that remark. I like the way you put it. Most of the key phrases or lines just sort of come out straight away----some are just personal events, some about from reading or within conversations. Sometimes, I look for a good line around subject matter. The more difficult part is expanding the lyrics into a cohesive pattern around that line and matching it with the proper melody.

Marchman: What's the concept behind a song like "Machiavellian Eyes"?

SB: The key idea and line was about being "a-" whatever-----just existential as in amoral, asexual, etc. ie, without morals, with sexuality---but, being the ambitious girl she was. Machiavelli wrote "The Prince" as a way to get out of prison; I was just examining this girl's personality that was intentionally absent of maliciousness, but very self directed at the same time. But, I think in the end other emotions creep in and force one out of the existential thought patterns and force you to make conclusions based on right and wrong; in other words, existentialism fails as a philosophy---the world and your own emotions force you into moral decisions whether you like it or not. We can pretend not to care for awhile, but......

Marchman: How do you feel about the availability of SCRUFFS material, for fans that want to explore the band's catalog?

SB: Availability of THE SCRUFFS is pretty rough. I am the world's worst musical business man and the absolute worst at selling myself ....difficult transition to downloads, etc. Difficult situation all around as far as I'm concerned. I think people really have to make an effort to get the catalogue which is a shame that it is so hard for them.

SB: Hopefully!

Marchman: Let's talk about the new album. "Pop Manifesto" a little. One of the standouts is "There's a Girl I know" – is there really a person those lyrics are based on? They sound somewhat specifically aimed at someone.

SB: Good detective! There is one particular person that the concept and some specific lyrics are based on from Memphis who I have known quite a long time. But, as always, I take the concept and round it out to try to be a little more inclusive lyrically. I make an attempt to appeal to a bit more general audience, but I usually end up ruining it, self-destructively and go for a bit too much of the truth.

Marchman: The saxes remind me of ROXY MUSIC a little. Plus there are some horns in "Septembers Lost" – who arranges the horn parts for the albums?

SB: I like the ROXY sound, of course. But, I did not specify that type sound. I just give the melodies and sections to Peter Shand, the maestro, and he works out the arrangements. He's really good. I suggest the instruments and some parts and Peter takes it to a better place usually. "Be A Dream" was quite a logical Phil Spector thing, but Peter is a classical musician and doesn't really know Spector, so I just had to describe the wall of strings sound. "There's A Girl I Know" could have NOT had the sax on it. But, it was sort of crying a bit for it from the middle 8, so we put it on. There was so much energy on that track it was hard to mix it in and keep the driving level. But, it worked fine. September's Lost I wrote as a "Paradise Lost" sort of idea. I loved JOHNNY CASH and "Ring of Fire". When I wrote the song, I knew it had to have the mariachi horns. Without them, I think the chords are a bit boring. But, I had it in my head from the get go. And then it was up to showing Peter what I meant by it. I think he actually listened to "Ring of Fire" to get my idea. Of course, the tune is completely different. Actually, it was sort of a combination of LOVE's "Forever Changes" and "Ring of Fire" that I was going for and we got something Scruffy, as usual.

Marchman: There's quite a range of different sounds on the new album, stuff like "Jihann" has a simple, arpeggiated jangly guitar sound, and then more complex arrangements like "Situation Critical" scratch that almost BOWIE / ROXY type of itch. Are all the songs written on acoustic, and do you envision the additional instruments from the beginning?

SB: Sometimes I write on the piano---good example is "She's Got It for You"----fairly obvious, so I played piano on it and overdubbed my guitar. Other times, the guitar. I try not to let the instrument colour the song and be a bit flexible. I usually have an idea of the instrumentation just from the melody or rhythm although that can change a bit when we bash it out in the studio. We did not rehearse, other than in the studio for "Pop Manifesto". We did not seem to need outside rehearsal for it which worked out well. I had the songs in my mind pretty well, and we did make the odd change or arrangement change during putting the tunes down. Geoff Allan, the engineer makes such a difference. When you can hear what you are rehearsing and get close to what you want, despite the absence of vocal overdubs or other parts, it really helps get the track done. And we're all too lazy to carry our instruments to a rehearsal studio and then back to the real recording studio anyway. Now that I come to think of it, I never liked carrying a guitar, not even when I was 20 years old.

Marchman: How do you continue to come up with teen angst-heavy power pop once you're past those teenage years? Does it get harder as the years pile up?

SB: If you happen to be amongst the group of everlasting teenage mentalities (in which group I think I am included) I would not say that it gets harder to write angst based material at all. If anything, the various anxieties become more complex. Of course, one is generally trying to expand lyrical concepts and musical tones and structures----you try not to repeat the same structures and develop and augment new themes based on the angst emotional communion philosophy. (I think that sounds sufficiently eligible for a psychiatric textbook.)

Marchman: Is there SCRUFFS material on the way that we can look forward to in 2008?

SB: Actually, yes. There will be another Scruffsville adventure with recording both at Ardent and CaVa (Glasgow, Scotland) and probably mixing at Ardent in Memphis. The Scruff lineup will consist primarily of the same folk as played on "Pop Manifesto" depending on everyone's availability. There are several working titles for the project, but I have not settled on one just yet.

Marchman: So, what's your overall impression of THE SCRUFFS 'schizophrenic' career? Are they a historic Memphis power pop band, or an eclectic pop collaboration between US and European musicians?

SB: I do think that, technically, "Pop Manifesto" is really the best SCRUFFS record to date. Of course, the extremely popular cult status of "Wanna Meet The Scruffs?" and "TeenAge Gurls" created in the background of "the Memphis sound" will generally always outshine later materials---but, I do not think it is because the later music is lacking in any way---it is just that the time period of "Wanna Meet" and "TeenAge Gurls" was an exceptional time period. I understand there is a current project underway entitled something like "The 40 year History of Ardent" and, THE SCRUFFS and BIG STAR will be included on several tracks along with massive recording figures from over the 40 years that Ardent has been pushing the record button. With projects like this, the emphasis on my songs and performances with the early versions of THE SCRUFFS tend to take precedence over the current musical endeavors. But, I do think "Pop Manifesto" is quite worthy of being listened to in its own right. Write?

Marchman: I say so! Thanks very much for your time and the great answers.

SB: Thanks to you, Mark! Take care.

The latest SCRUFFS album, "Pop Manifesto" was recorded over a year with permanent members Stephen Burns, Simon Cottrell, Mark Rodgers and Paul Napier with major contributions from Zachary Ware, Giles Lamb, Peter Shand and engineer Geoff Allan, recorded at CaVa studios in Glasgow and finished and mixed at Ardent studios in Memphis in June of 2006. Pick it up via their web sitewww.thescruffs.com.

**The web version of this article can be found at www.peacedogman.com/ptiscruf**