October 2008 – In yet another example of “you heard it here first,” a few months ago we shared with you, our dear readers, the ’07 debut full-length from Raleigh’s BIRDS OF AVALON. Not only did it earn a perfect friggin’ score, but they wasted no time following up this year with the equally brilliant “Outer Upper Inner,” a fully-analog affair polished to a glistening shine with limitless pop hooks and the ingenuity of famed producer Mitch Easter (R.E.M.). So before they become a household name and no longer have time for us lowly webzines anymore, we wanted to chat with BOA guitarist Cheetie Kumar about the band’s sound, their time on the road, and stumbling through strange kitchens in the dark…

Russ Cardona: First off, we here at Peacedogman adore bands such as BIRDS OF AVALON that are difficult to pinpoint. If at all possible, though, how would you describe your sound to someone who’s never heard you before?

Cheetie Kumar: Thanks for the nice words… This is always a hard question to answer. It’s nearly impossible for anyone to be objective about their own band, but I honestly don’t think we fit into one strict category. Some of our stuff is rock in the sense that it has guitar riffs and upbeat tempos, but we try to stay away from being ironic or too predictable. Some songs are mellower and melodic, while some are more hypnotic and psychedelic. We use a lot of guitar melodies, sometimes in harmony and strive to write all kinds of pop songs. If you like country-indie-folk or rap metal, though, you probably won’t find anything to like about us…

Cardona: So who are BIRDS OF AVALON and how did they come to be?

Cheetie: We are five people from North Carolina who had been playing in various bands for several years when we got together a few years ago. All of us live in Raleigh except Scott (our drummer) who lives on the outskirts of Chapel Hill. We came together as our other bands were disintegrating or slowing down…

Cardona: What’s the story behind the name of the band?

Cheetie: The acronym (BOA) came first and soon after, the “Bird” word was injected. We thought the imagery of Avalon was interesting, not necessarily so much in relation to King Arthur, but more so the legend of five Celtic goddesses of Avalon. One of them, Rhiannon (yes, like the annoying Stevie Nicks song) had birds that she could talk to and who could soothe the souls of troubled men… and women, I presume. The words all sounded good together and the imagery associated could work visually, if we chose to use it.

Cardona: Our own Doug Herring made some strong comparisons between your music and that of CHEAP TRICK and THIN LIZZY. How on the money was he? Any glaring omissions as far as influences we left out?

Cardona: Last year, we did a feature on Mitch Easter, the legendary producer who you’ve worked with on your past two releases. Tell us how you hooked up with him and what it’s been like working with him.

Cheetie: Paul and I have known Mitch Easter for a long time. We have both recorded with him in various bands we’ve been in (together and separately) over the years in various stages of his many studio developments. He completed construction of the current fabulous Fidelitorium Studio (essentially built in his backyard) several years ago, but we never had the opportunity to record in the new facility. So when it came time to make the first BIRDS OF AVALON album, working with him seemed like a natural and obvious choice. Working with Mitch is an amazing experience. Not only is he one of the nicest guys you’ll ever meet, he’s a goldmine of knowledge, has impeccable taste, has great equipment and knows how to use it… yet is still up for experimenting and doesn’t engage in weird power battles in the studio. At the same time, he gets whatever you’re trying to do and is the fastest “EQ-er” in the West… and also this year’s (and last’s) tape-splicing champion!

Cardona: Let’s talk about your new EP, “Outer Upper Inner”. As we understand, it was recorded 100 percent analog. How difficult was it to get the sound you wanted without the aid of modern technology?

Cheetie: The idea of the new EP came from Mitch suggesting (perhaps not so seriously) that we record using a pair of old (late ‘60s) 4-track machines he had. At the same time, we were ready to do some new recording after touring for most of 2007, but weren’t ready to jump into a full-length quite yet (plus, we had had only been home a few weeks before we went in the studio, so we didn’t really have enough material to make a full-length we would have been satisfied with), so it seemed like a good time for experimentation. The idea of having the recording technique impose simplicity on the arrangements and instrumentation of the songs was exciting to us… plus, we’d always wanted to see what it was like to record like everybody did in the 60’s: bouncing down using two separate 4 track machines, doing group overdubs while mixing down, etc... Truly archaic compared to today’s ability to record everything that pops in your head and then have to deal with it in the mix! Sometimes it was frustrating but rewarding in the end. We had to record all vocals simultaneously on to one track, record all the guitars, bass and the occasional saxophone or keyboard part all at once. Any mess-ups meant EVERYONE had to redo their part as well… so the pressure to play well was on! So it wasn’t just that it was all analog - I don’t think that’s such a big deal - but it was not the 16 or 24 track most people use if and when they go “retro” in the studio. The sound of that machine was surprisingly big, and since we’d approached some of the songwriting and arrangements to suit the recording style, we were prepared to sacrifice doing a lot of overdubs and left things fairly simple… we also didn’t “clean up” all our tracks and left in a lot of extraneous sounds, talking, etc., which just added to the overall casual, ambient sound of the record, I think. All in all, it wasn’t a “perfect,” pristine record we were trying to make and we were able to do it pretty fast.

Cardona: You seem to be adding more and more instruments to your sound with “Outer Upper Inner,” like the saxophone in “Hazy 98.” It almost sounds like you’re mimicking the sax riff with the guitar… is that how the song is performed live, with the guitar replacing the sax?

Cheetie: You’re right - the guitar is playing along with (and in harmony with) the sax part on the record… but we’ve never (so far) played that song live… but if and when we do, we’ll have to figure something out! I liked having a harmony with a guitar and something else rather than the typical two-guitar harmony. The saxophone has made its appearance in our band since the early days. David (bass) plays it and it was used in some of our early demos and shows up at the end of “Turn Gold” (from “Bazaar Bazaar”) with the harmonica.

Cardona: Where do your interludes like “Instant Coma” and “Where’s My Jetpack?” come from? Are they jams intended to be interludes, or are they song fragments that didn’t find their way into full-length songs?

Cheetie: All of the above, really… all the interludes definitely started off as “jams” and they seemed like they should stand alone instead of being structured into “actual” songs… for the live show, we try to improvise some interludes to give us a chance to try different stuff every night, which is important when you’re playing night after night for months on end! Plus, it’s good to break up a show or a record with pieces that are simple, not too loud, and hopefully pleasing to the ear….

Cardona: Who handles the lyrics, and are there any deep and profound social commentaries to be found within them?

Cheetie: The lyric duties vary from song to song. Most often, someone has a few words or a theme that gets expounded on… sometimes in group sessions. We don’t set out to have any social commentaries, per se. Usually we end up writing about fictional characters that may or may not represent some scenario we find interesting at the time. We just make up some story for some poor hapless character and usually end up killing him in our mind by the end of the song!

Cardona: Regarding the song “Keep it Together, Thackery”… um… who’s Thackery?

Cheetie: Thackery is one of the aforementioned doomed characters. He is supposedly on a boat on a long journey and isn’t feeling too confident that he’ll be returning to land safely. Sounds like a whirlpool or sharks get him in the end!

Cardona: As folks may or may not know, you and co-guitarist Paul Siler are a married couple. How does that affect the inner workings of the band, as far as decision-making, songwriting, etc.?

Cheetie: We try to keep our relationship as platonic as we can when on band time and really do make an effort to keep things creative and not romantic or dramatic. We are a band of 5 adults and I’m sure none of those guys want to deal with a married couple and their married issues! In spite of this, there is no way we can separate being a couple completely from band dynamics; hopefully it just makes it so we can communicate with each other a little better than most band members do. We can be honest with each other about each others’ parts and band decisions. Also, we get to work on stuff together more than average bandmates since we cohabitate… legally.

Cardona: You guys have been touring your butts off in both the US and Europe, including a high-profile gig with MUDHONEY. How has the reception been?

Cardona: Do you live shows only consist of the upbeat rockers like “Bicentennial Baby”, or do some of the more mellow tracks like “Shakey Tiger” make it into the set list?

Cheetie: It depends on the night and the crowd. If it’s a bunch of heshers, we’ll probably keep things upbeat, yet still do some of the interludes you mentioned earlier. But if it’s up to us, we’d rather mix up the set with some of the more “mellow” songs, which are fun to play. It’s more challenging and makes for a more interesting set if we can play those songs well enough.

Cardona: On the subject of touring, are there any crazy on-the-road stories you can share with our readers?

Cheetie: Well, we’ve signed confidentiality agreements about the most lurid incidents, which will be soon chronicled in a 3000-page retrospective of our band, but here’s one story that is humiliating to no one but me: We were in Columbus, OH and some very nice people allowed us to spend the night in a bar/club we didn’t even play. After everyone had left, I was trying to find the bathroom in the dark (granted, our hosts had been generous with the whiskey and beer earlier…) Well, I ended up in what was the kitchen of this fine establishment, which had just gotten its permits cleared to serve food. Being pitch black in there (and in my brain), I felt around on the wall for the light switch and my hand found what felt like an old-timey light switch… I pulled on it and was nearly knocked over by a deafening siren, flashing lights and the unmistakable sound of sprinklers watering the stove, the grill and the fryer. Needless to say, I was mortified, especially when I had to face the owners who had probably just gotten to bed seconds before they were rudely awakened by the commotion. We cleaned the mess up, I apologized 900 times and was shocked when a few months later we were asked to play the very same club! Nice people… obviously they don’t hold a grudge!

Cardona: We review a lot of bands with the tag “retro” here at Peacedogman, and while a lot of the stuff we hear is great, the term can often mean a direct and unabashed emulation of one or two specific bands. Being a band with such a diverse style, what do you folks think of the retro tag and do you consider yourselves a retro band?

Cheetie: We definitely don’t consider ourselves a retro band. I guess we listen to a lot of old music, but we also keep up with newer bands, which there are plenty of good ones at the moment. We have never set out to recreate or deify any particular era. I see a lot of patterns in eras of music… things come and go in cycles. I suppose our first album is kind of a straightforward rock album, but I hope as our catalog grows, we have a body of work that is diverse enough to not be categorized in any era or style. We invite the challenge to write different types of songs and hope to use a varied palette of sounds and ideas.

Cardona: Finally, if you have any upcoming touring plans or projects you’d like to let our readers know about, lay ‘em on us!

Cheetie: We are currently working on writing new songs for our next full length. We hope to get in the studio this winter and hope we can have something out early spring… I’m sure we’ll be touring then!

Cardona: Thanks for your time! Keep rockin’!

BIRDS OF AVALON are Cheetie Kumar (guitar), Paul Siler (guitar), Craig Tilley (vocals), Scott Nurkin (drums) and David Mueller (bass & various other things). Their releases “Outer Upper Inner” and “Bazaar Bazaar” are available through Volcom Records. Visit them online at www.birdsofavalon.com and myspace.com/birdsofavalon.

Photos by Justin Lyon and Gary Copeland,

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